I Don't Understand CUV's

"Milky" (jordanmielke) 01/06/2014 at 16:58 • Filed to: BMW, Porsche, X1, Macan

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X1 and Macan hate inside.

Last week I was driving and noticed a X1 next to me. Now I've been in now at the auto show and thought ehh compact SUV, but in my Crossfire I was BARELY looking up at the middle aged lady driving it.

Now Autoblog has a Macan Turbo review with this photo

Notice the guy? Yea they're short. So your paying a premium for a SUV but really are you are getting awkwardly styled car, because its NOT a SUV. Also its 75k which hurts my brain because if you want something fast with room and a nice badge, this exists.

/rant

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:00

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Nice to see the "Coulda had a S7" meme is still aliv-wait, what?

Milky > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 01/06/2014 at 17:04

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Just S7 in this case, because 75k. But I see it as logical cross shopping, sorry I guess I should of said C7 Vette.

Flat Six > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:05

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Wow that Macan looks smaller than I though. Is it much bigger than one of these?

Textured Soy Protein > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:07

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You hate so many things.

Textured Soy Protein > Flat Six 01/06/2014 at 17:07

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Yes, it's the same basic size as an Audi Q5, with which it shares a platform. It's a couple inches lower and a couple inches longer.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:09

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A Porsche badge holds more power than an Audi badge. At least in the mind of the people that have the money to buy stuff like that.

Textured Soy Protein > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:10

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The Macan Turbo (which, the Macan S is also turbo, but the Macan Turbo is more turbo) starts at $73,200. The S7 starts at $80,300.

Which, ok, if you can afford the Macan Turbo you can probably afford the S7. But it's still 8 grand.

Textured Soy Protein > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:15

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I semi-seriously considered an X1 before I got my 135is.

The X1 is basically a tall E90 3-series hatchback. It's got better headroom and the same powertrains. With the M Sport suspension it's reasonably lowered down to the ground that while it's marketed as a "crossover" it's basically a car.

I like hatchbacks & wagons, and hey, 300 hp turbo I6 awd hatchback is cool.

I didn't buy it because the back seat isn't very roomy. Unlike my 135is which has a "back seat" like the X1 is a "crossover," adult humans can mostly fit in the X1's back seat. But with the driver's seat adjusted to my liking (I'm 5'11") I got in the back seat and my knees were squished on the seatback.

If I'm going to have 4 doors, I want a nice comfy back seat, so no dice on the X1 for me.

Flat Six > Textured Soy Protein 01/06/2014 at 17:15

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That's actually a Mazda 3 :)

The Q5 is a bit bigger than the Mazda.

Klaus Schmoll > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:16

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Notice the similarity to that Macan you were complaining about?

While S- or CUVs might not be my cup of tea, why not live and let live? If there is a market for raised Golfs, why not let automakers fight for it.

Apparently, these things are selling like hot cakes. With an aging demographic, more and more people want easy ingress, and the the benefits of a raised seat hight. However this gets accomplished.

Also, comparing an X1 to an A7 is a foul game! They are far from being price competitive.

How about letting the sheeple buy what they think they want/need to let automakers make an extra buck on the side to still give us enthusiasts what we want? That Toyobaru wouldn't have happened without Outbacks/Camrys/Corollas flooding their pockets with cash!

Milky > Textured Soy Protein 01/06/2014 at 17:16

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Not that much hate actually, just when car companies don't make the best car then can. Also I said don't understand, I'd just get a nice 3 series or equivalent car instead.

Textured Soy Protein > Flat Six 01/06/2014 at 17:16

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Yes, that's what I mean. The Macan is Q5 sized, i.e. bigger than a Mazda 3.

Milky > Textured Soy Protein 01/06/2014 at 17:18

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Ahh I see now the Autoblog review says est. $75,000. So thats my fault, but Im sure the S6 is more comparable then.

Milky > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 01/06/2014 at 17:19

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Its not like if you show up to the company car park in a S7 its not a status symbol. Esp. since its a trendy coupe .

feather-throttle-not-hair > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:23

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My sister bought an X1. I think she got it because it was reasonably cheap while still being stylish and European. She just had a baby and there's enough space back there for my nephew and his stuff. Nobody in my family is very tall.

I think that she'd actually have preferred a small wagon to a "CUV" but if you're being a badge snob your choices are limited.

Milky > Flat Six 01/06/2014 at 17:25

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Just looked it up, only 6 inch difference. For that looking over the peasants feel.

Leadbull > Klaus Schmoll 01/06/2014 at 17:28

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I think the point is, it's hardly raised at all. So you're buying an SUV which is possibly smaller than a midsized sedan.

These are stupid, and the fact that people buy them is troubling. Shares of Enron used to sell like hotcakes, too. Where those OK?

Yes, I am equating CUVs with white collar crime.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:28

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Jesus, this again?

CUVs are very, very easily explained: seating position. No, they're often not much taller than a sedan, but they almost always give the SUV-style seating position (upright, higher) but in a smaller, more easily managed package.

It's an incredibly easy concept to understand, especially when given that women are the target market with CUVs. The appeal of safety, plenty of comfort, and easily usable space. There's not much not to understand.

Textured Soy Protein > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:28

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Let me save you a lot of aggravation. We're car people. We like cars that drive nice and stuff. Because we're into cars. But almost everybody has a car, and most everybody views their car as a transportation appliance (and possibly status symbol).

Here's the logic for the X1, and every other crossover:

1. Mainstream American car buyers actually like all the practical benefits of a wagon, as long as you call it something other than "wagon," because they hear the word "wagon" and think of this:

2. Mainstream American car buyers believe SUVs are safe because of 4wd and sitting up high.

3. Mainstream American car buyers prefer the softer ride, half decent handling & gas mileage of unibody car-based vehicles, over actual truck-based SUVs.

So, you take a wagon or hatchback, then to make it look more like an SUV give it a higher roofline and jack up the suspension. It no longer carries the wagon scarlet letter, and gives the perceived benefits of both an SUV and car.

Textured Soy Protein > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:29

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But the S6 is not a vaguely wagon-shaped sorta high-riding not-SUV thing. Which if you want a vaguely wagon-shaped sorta high-riding not-SUV thing, just won't do. ;)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/06/2014 at 17:30

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Also, aging baby boomers love them a high H-point.

Anon > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/06/2014 at 17:32

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Also if you live in a place with shitty roads ground clearance is nice to have.

willkinton247 > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/06/2014 at 17:32

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Yes. This.

For Sweden > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/06/2014 at 17:32

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Also, classification as a light truck for average fleet emissions calculations, making them cheaper to develop and cheaper to sell.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > For Sweden 01/06/2014 at 17:39

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Ah damnit, fogort to include this as well. Yes, this, too. An extremely pragmatic decision. I personally don't have an issue with automakers I like making/saving money.

wizkashifa > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:40

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Secret: they're just slightly lifted wagons. But don't tell anyone in America, because we won't buy them.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > For Sweden 01/06/2014 at 17:41

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Meanwhile, robbing the market of true light trucks.

marshknute > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:47

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Here in Connecticut, whenever you try to build a house, you find one metric shit load of rocks. What do we do with those rocks? We drag them to the edge of the property and build a stone wall. Guess where one's eye level is when driving a sedan? Right in line with the stone wall.

Every time a CT sedan driver turns out of a driveway, the are turning blind, get T-boned and suffer a fiery death.

Every time a CT CUV driver turns out of a driveway, they can see over the stone wall, pull out safely and don't suffer a fiery death.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > Milky 01/06/2014 at 17:48

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Is it bad I see the macan as a High performance hatchback/wagon? Something a-la WRX wagon? because it's the same concept: Fast, slightly high, AWD compact utility vehicle.
and yeah, it's 75K, but that's because it's a Porsche!

Milky > marshknute 01/06/2014 at 18:12

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Sir if you look at the photo of the X1 and the 3 series you can not tell me that is saving-you-from-crashing-when-pulling-out-from-behind-rocks high.

Milky > wizkashifa 01/06/2014 at 18:13

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That might be the best argument made on this subject. Well played.

Milky > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/06/2014 at 18:40

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Jesus this is the first time I've brought this up! Also is the there a 2 inch difference in seating position in that 3 series/X1 photo? Maybe? And since when does a 3 series not excel at all of these esp. in wagon from "safety, plenty of comfort, and easily usable space."

Milky > Anon 01/06/2014 at 18:43

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X1 vs 3 series the X1 is only a inch and a half higher just fyi.

Milky > Textured Soy Protein 01/06/2014 at 18:47

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All those points are valid but my point here is the tiny CUV's which actually aren't high at all and there for don't give you any of the benefits of a SUV. When a 3 series and a X1 are the same size, give a inch or two, why are we lying about it and calling it a SUV?

Milky > Leadbull 01/06/2014 at 18:49

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Thank you. One of the very few people that got my point. I don't hate SUVs, its just that these aren't SUVs. They are awkwardly styled wagons.

Milky > Klaus Schmoll 01/06/2014 at 18:53

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First off I was comparing a Macan Turbo to a S7 because similar prices and power. But as Leadbull said I was specifically talking about the new baby CUVs that aren't actually any bigger, probably should of clarified better.

Milky > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 01/06/2014 at 18:54

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No I agree that what it is!! Or that was kind of my point, because they aren't actually high so why are we & Porsche calling it a SUV?

Textured Soy Protein > Milky 01/06/2014 at 19:05

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I dunno but the X1 28i is like $10k cheaper than the 328xi wagon, and if you want the I6 it's only available in the X1 not the 3 wagon. You could get it in the X3 or 335i GT but those are similarly $10k+ more than the X1.

If you put aside the whole CUV label it's actually a pretty good deal.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Milky 01/06/2014 at 19:13

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Yeah sorry, not directed at you specifically, just the question.

I can't say for the X1 in particular, as I have little familiarity with them, but I'd venture to say yes anyway. That said, the X1 is as close to a lifted wagon as just about any CUV on the market.

For one, wagons have usable space, but when the choice is between having that useable space at knee height or at waist height, the space is much more easily used, especially for women and older people (read: CUV buyers) when it's at waist-ish height.

Comfort goes for the same: a 3 series wagon may be comfortable, but the ingress and egress on a CUV is almost always going to be easier. And as much as I love wagons, as a back seat passenger, the back seat of a CUV is generally much more comfortable and spacious.

Finally, the safety isn't about actual safety, it's about perceived safety. People seem to tend to feel safer in a CUV, especially with the raised ride height, all other things held equal. And folks buy things on perception, not on data.

Again, I'm a wagon lover, but for the largest portion of the populous, the decision to get a CUV over a wagon or sedan is very easily explained.

Milky > Textured Soy Protein 01/06/2014 at 19:21

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I'm not arguing model and engine designations because thats different for every company. I'm saying when the height difference is 1.5 inches …. why are we calling them CUVs?

Milky > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/06/2014 at 19:31

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I think I should clarify I don't mean all CUVs, hell my grandparents have a Traverse and Vue so I get it. The point was these new baby CUVs don't give the height benefits of a SUV. I actually did some fact checking for some of the comments and the X1 is only 1.5 inches higher than the 3 Series.

So yes a CUV does have those positives going for it. But the new super small CUVs don't or at least they don't IMO.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Milky 01/06/2014 at 19:54

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And again I would say that one, the X1 is one of the most extreme examples thus far. Being familiar with the Q5 (reasonable analog for Macan) and having seen/driven around some X1s, I remember Q5s seeming much higher.

Plus, it's not just in absolute height, re: seating position, deck heights, etc. They're engineered differently than their sedan counterparts, which means that sills and bumpers and decks and seats and beltlines and a smattering of variables are meaningfully higher or different from their sedan counterparts. And, a few inches here and there can mean a bigger difference than some might think.

Textured Soy Protein > Milky 01/06/2014 at 21:21

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Because wagon and hatchback are dirty words to the majority of the car-buying public.

Long and short of it, I accept the fact that what most people want in a car is different from what I want, car companies are out to sell as many cars as possible, so they're going to make cars that aren't the platonic ideal of what I want. What's the point in being frustrated about the fact that these cars exist?

Milky > Textured Soy Protein 01/06/2014 at 21:36

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I'm more frustrated that you think I hate the auto industry, when I'm trying to be part of it. I think the new baby CUV's are too small but thats obviously just my opinion.

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Textured Soy Protein > Milky 01/06/2014 at 22:01

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All I'm saying is I think there's no sense getting worked up over of a bunch of crossovers that are essentially tall awd cars. They exist. The companies that make them call them crossovers. No puppies were murdered as a result of their existence or being called crossovers.

Hell, even if you hate them with the fury of a thousand blazing suns, at the very least, they put more people in lower, lighter vehicles that are less likely to kill you when they run into your sports car because they spilled their soy caramel mocha frappawappamacchiatachino on their lap while posting baby pictures on facebook, than if they were driving a big truck based SUV.

Milky > Textured Soy Protein 01/06/2014 at 22:13

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"less likely to kill you when they run into your sports car because they spilled their soy caramel mocha frappawappamacchiatachino on their lap while posting baby pictures on facebook"

Now all is right with the world, thank you.

therotaryisdeadlonglivetherotary > Milky 01/06/2014 at 22:59

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So what you're saying is the new Porsche CUV is a hot hatch? I see nothing wrong with this pictures. Sure they messed up the ride height, but that'd be easy to fix. I shall henceforth refer to it as the Porsche GTI, in the venerable VAG tradition of hot hatches.

PostOMatic2000 > Milky 01/07/2014 at 10:50

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You obviously don't have a family or a house. The 3 series sedan is fine for apartment-dwelling hipsters, but add the need for a car seat, stroller, diaper bag and some toys, and suddenly the X1 makes much more sense. Plus, you can tote the dogs to the groomer, pick up that box from Ikea, take a weekend trip to the cabin with a ton of sled riding gear...the list goes on and on. And before you say "a wagon is just as good", try putting a toddler in and out of a car seat 50 times in a day with a car. That kills your back! With a CUV, the hip-riding toddler goes straight across to the car seat with much less strain.

Milky > PostOMatic2000 01/07/2014 at 15:59

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Sir please refer to the the top of the post where I call my car out as a Crossfire, and also know I'm a single college student in a apartment. So no family man life for me yet.

But my point here was about how short they're getting and because of the comments I've looked up some facts. The x1 is only a inch and half taller than a 3 series. Thats not helping you get the baby in the back high.

Also I did try to find a photo of 3 wagon next to a X1 but a GIS came up with nothing.

Gr8Dane > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/07/2014 at 18:33

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Absolutely, 100% undeniably true!

Unfortunately, that doesn't make them, nor the sort of people that tend to gravitate towards them, any less stupid.

"I want something that can haul a decent amount of cargo!"

-Buy a wagon.

"...but I don't want to drive something my parents did! I want something that let's me see over traffic! It also needs to handle adverse weather & bumpy terrain."

-Buy an SUV.

"Those are too big! I'm scared to drive something like that, plus there's the terrible gas mileage..."

-Buy a Minivan.

"What? NO!!"

-Kill yourself.

It makes complete sense why they exist: They make tons of money.

Unfortunately, most people's logic for wanting one is generally....yep, stupid.

Gr8Dane > Milky 01/07/2014 at 18:37

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While I realize this isn't actually the case, my eyes keep telling me that the rear-slope ends at a lower point than the front-slope, which just weirds me out.

Probably has something to do with my internalized hatred of pedestrian-impact safety requirements and how they killed all my beloved sharknose & wedge-cars.

PostOMatic2000 > Milky 01/09/2014 at 11:41

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Ah, so I was correct. A person who doesn't have the need for a CUV doesn't understand the appeal of CUVs. Of course not, but you will someday Grasshopper. (Google it, its from a TV show before you were born)